have you ever had a postmortem done on any of your animals? how do you know they were in perfect health when they died? respiratory is one of the only external problems caused by softwood shavings, most of the problems are internal – organ damage and so on. without a postmortem, there is no way you can say that all those animals you kept on those toxic woodshavings died solely of old age.

[quote author=lauraliee link=board=5;threadid=1105;start=0#msg6017 date=1091399058] DON’T use any thing like cedar or pine they are dangerious to most rodents health, they carry toxic oils that break down the liver and respatory system, and can be fatal if you use them for a long period of time. thats what happened to my very first rat i ever got b/c i had no clue. [/quote] My hamsters has lived with cedar for 2 1/2 years…

[quote author=crazy_psycho_rat link=board=5;threadid=1105;start=14#msg7431 date=1096934072] um ok first of all i love my animals more then i love anything else in this world. so don’t even go there with me on that. and ya i have gone to alot of different sites and it all said the same pine is not bad for them. plus my aunt owns a pet store and she uses pine and all her animals are fine and i think that she would know if pine hurts them or not. because she loves the animals in her pet store. oh and if your gonna say i don’t love my animals and stuff like that you better know what you are talking about. cuz all i have to say if your wrong. so w/e. don’t bother writing back to this cuz this strand is dead it’s over. [/quote] I would like to know the web sites you went to, because I have rarely seen a website that said pine was okay. The rat and mouse registry websites have the most reliable information, don’t you think? Why don’t you take a look at those, they even say not to use pine! Why would you risk it though, if aspen is the same price? Why not just buy what even the rat registry sites say is good for them? What makes me really mad, though, is that you ask for advice and then you get mad at people when they give you advice that you don’t like! If you’re going to act like that, don’t even bother to ask for advice anymore because it’s starting to really get on people’s nerves. Everyone is just giving you their advice, which is what YOU asked for in the first place, and then you go and blow up on them because they said something you didn’t like. That’s just not right.

[quote author=crazy_psycho_rat link=board=5;threadid=1105;start=21#msg7557 date=1097457430] didn’t ask for advice just wrote this to see what people said. never once asked for help. oh and if you think pine is bad why in the world would you even think of useing cedar. everyone knows not to use cedar. and i am sorry but i think i should know if pine is good for them or not. again my aunt owns a pet store so she would know not to mention since this little out brake i have went to a number of pet organizations and animals clinincs. and they all said the same to pine is ok for them. so what are you going to tell me that all those people are wrong too? and no i wasn’t blowing up on anyone till they started in on my not loveing my pets and sorry but i don’t take that. i’m sorry if i am getting on ur nerves but i don’t take stuff like that from people who don’t even know me. [/quote] I don’t use cedar, I use Aspen. I have always used Aspen for my rats and always will. I know that you love your pets and I am only trying to help. But, I think it would be better to ask an actual expert on RATS instead of animal clinics and pet organizations. Here is what the AFRMA rat registry has to say about it. I think they would know better that anyone :). The second one is especially good and the last one has a whole list of articles about it. http://www.afrma.com/rminfo2.htm http://www.afrma.com/rminfo2a.htm http://www.afrma.com/rmindex.htm If you still want to use pine, then do so but please read some of these articles first. <:3 )~~~~ Wispy Whiskerz Rattery <:3 )~~~~

lauraliee was only saying that not all vets know everything about rats. Vets are not trained to know specifics about each species, they go to vet school to learn about medical care. Why don’t you go to an actual RAT EXPERT, not a vet or a pet shop. You are pretty much saying that the AFRMA rat registry is a bunch of stupid idiots that don’t know what they are talking about. They are the NUMBER ONE rat registry on this continent! They would be the most reliable source, don’t you think? Any normal person that needs information on rats would go to the most reliable source they could find and get proper information. Why ask a vet or anyone else when you can get the correct information from an expert? Oh, and by the way, would I be running a rattery/rescue if I didn’t know crap about rats?! I don’t think so. It takes a lot of time and research to take care of any pet, and some people are just too stubborn to admit they are wrong!